osfree.org

#481 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Thu Aug 29, 2002 3:27 am
Subject: Re: Re: osFree mailjmase
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On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:19:07 +0400 (EDT), Yuri Prokushev wrote:

>On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:34:52 +0200, JMA wrote:
>
>>>He meant, that we should first get everything to work, then enchance Of
course
>>>NewView and ReginaRexx are out of this 'rule' as work on them is made by
others
>>>(nice of them )
>>I dont see any us and them here.
>>
>>Whatever app that runs on osFree is great and the more apps that runs the
better.
>>If they are part of the CVS or developed outside the main project is
irrelevant.
>>
>>Or should we expect OS/2 developers to turn to Microsofts licencing scheme
>>
>>This application is only allowed to run on genuine IBM(R) OS/2(R) Warp(TM)
4.x,
>>you are not allowed to run it on eComStation, using VPC or and FreeOS, osFree
>>or Windows or Linux.
>Which application??? Or this is 'quote'?
>
Sorry, yes, its a quote. Not directed to you.



Sincerely

JMA
Development and Consulting

John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================

#482 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Thu Aug 29, 2002 3:29 am
Subject: Re: Re: osFree mailjmase
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On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:32:42 +0200 (CDT), Bartosz Tomasik (Bart/2) wrote:

>On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 18:04:02 +0400 (EDT), Yuri Prokushev wrote:
>
>>Problem is I can't access to osfree's ftp. All dirs is empty (build, docs,
etc.) excluding
>cvssnapshot. I can download watcom from other places but not other build tools.
>
>ftp problems... Michael?
>
Thats Michal, not Michael

But, I run the server

Please tell me what stuff you all want on the server and I'll place it there.



Sincerely

JMA
Development and Consulting

John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================

#483 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Thu Aug 29, 2002 3:39 am
Subject: Re: Re: osFree mailjmase
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On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:40:31 -0700 (PDT), Michal Necasek wrote:

>On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:13:33 +0400 (EDT), Yuri Prokushev wrote:
>
>>>>>Or maybe, mkmsgf can be built using C?
>>>>No. Only If rewrite, but I will not do this.
>>>beter pascal then nothing
>>I prefer pascal
>>
> Pascal sucks for professional development. And that's a fact.
>
For the type of development you do, definitly.
For doing operating systems, definitly.

For doing stuff like NewView I dont see any problem.

This is our problem, we want a relativly clean CVS and we want
all tools to be opensource. I know the toolkit is not opensource
but it will have to be replaced eventually.

Adding another compiler will add complexity to the CVS.
This does not mean that we dont want help, its rather that
adding it to the main source line might not be a good idea.

This should in no way stop other additions like toolkit stuff and
so on. But I think the OS stuff should be in C.

> Of course you can disagree all you want but that doesn't make
>Pascal any better
>
To come to the aid of Pascal I must say the Delphi is a great tool
on the Windows platform. It might be called a RAD tool but the
compiler is quite good and one can build really small apps with it.



Sincerely

JMA
Development and Consulting

John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410

#484 From: "Bartosz Tomasik (Bart/2)" <bart2@...>
Date: Thu Aug 29, 2002 9:34 am
Subject: FreePM thoughts ihsiatko
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I was digging in PM for a while and here are some resulting thoughts:
-. the fundamental part of PM are... atom tables, documentation states that
they're used
for keeping window classes indetifiers and I bet they are used also to map
handles to
memory pointers. You could load bitmap, and put memory pointer info atom table,
resulting atom is simply HBITMAP for that bitmap... (all other handle
identifiers are
probably managed the same way)
-. controls part (pmctls) is preety independent of core PM thus can be
implemented
as separate project - just need some guidelines for consistency (and! painting
part
should be separated from functionality).
and now pure-FreePM realated
-. CVS on sourceforge suxx I ust cannot use it, and if you stay there, you'll
cut me off
the project...
- ad 10. "FreePM thargets": using C++ in api isn't good idea.. unless you wan't
to use
SOM, but again, only C/C++ supports SOM now...
- ad 13. "FreePM thargets": recompilation is too much...
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#485 From: "Gregory L. Marx" <gregory.marx@...>
Date: Thu Aug 29, 2002 1:28 pm
Subject: Re: Re: osFree chekmarx
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On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 01:39:37 +0200 (CEST), JMA wrote:

<snip>

>> Of course you can disagree all you want but that doesn't make
>>Pascal any better
>>
>To come to the aid of Pascal I must say the Delphi is a great tool
>on the Windows platform. It might be called a RAD tool but the
>compiler is quite good and one can build really small apps with it.

Thanks JMA !!!

I'm not even a newbie developer ... The only programming I've done is at the
application level ...
Mainly apps/utils written in what Revelation Technologies calls RBASIC ... the
developemental language of AREV ...

But with that said ...
I know a GOOD thing when I see it ... It's called having "Good Taste"
And I too think that Delphi is an AWESOME environment !!!

When I first played around with the DEMO of Sibyl/2 version 2 I thought I'd died
and gone to heaven ...
But by the time I decided to buy a copy it was already impossible to find in the
'States ... I had to eventually have Thomas Bradford get me a
copy thru Mensys, which he did and saved me a TON of money (relative to the cost
of the product) since they had some sort of international
agreement and I didn't have to pay any of the standard VAT charges ... When all
was said and done I actually paid less than the suggested
retail price ... And for that I'm eternally grateful to Mr. Bradford ...

IMO losing Sibyl/2 was a big blow to OS/2, and now eCS ...
Yes VXREXX and VisProREXX are cool products ... But they don't hold a candle to
Sibyl/2 IMO ...
If someone is coming into eCS/OS2 as a newbie programming then the REXX tools
are okay as a RAD setup ... since they wouldn't know any
better, or what a good RAD tool looks like ...

But if we hope to sway and move a certain number of Windows programmers (I'm
talking mainly smallish/shareware authors) to come on
over to the eCS operating system then a RAD tool like Sibyl/2 would have been a
KILLER app for getting more applications for the plateform ...
(no Michal NOT low-level system stuff, or monster applications like OpenOffice
and Mozilla ... just nice smallish programs and utilities)

I've read a few references to the OpenSibyl (I think that's what it was called)
project ...
Can anyone elaborate on that ??? I'm curious what the intention is with this
project ...

Gregory L. Marx

#486 From: "Yuri Prokushev" <prokushev@...>
Date: Thu Aug 29, 2002 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: Re: osFree prokushev
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On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 05:28:25 -0400 (EDT), Gregory L. Marx wrote:

>I've read a few references to the OpenSibyl (I think that's what it was called)
project ...
>Can anyone elaborate on that ??? I'm curious what the intention is with this
project ...
Well. Mey be you know about GPLed sources of Sibyl. Many peoples tried to build
sources but failed (I don't know why, this is so easy). After long time Netlabs
annonced
OpenSibyl project. As compiler virtual pascal was proposed, but vpc is a) closed
source b) seems to be dead c) opensibyl project was rejected. So, FPC was
choosen
as compiler. At the present time only I active developer. Some peoples (from my
country) also started implement some things, but don't interact with cvs, only
with me.

To subscribe opensibyl mail-list send 'subscribe sibyl' message to
majormajor@....

BTW, thanks to all who helps me with docs and sources.

#487 From: "Michal Necasek" <michaln@...>
Date: Thu Aug 29, 2002 11:21 pm
Subject: Re: Re: osFree michalnec
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On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 01:56:59 +0400 (EDT), Yuri Prokushev wrote:

>> Pascal is a horrid language. Turbo Pascal is way better.
>Well. Turbo Pascal very old.
>
C is much older than Turbo Pascal

>> And the biggest problem of course is the fact that all
>>documentation and sample code is geared towards C/C++ and
>>so are all libraries. Can the Pascal compilers even use
>>the _cdecl or _Optlink calling convention?
>Hm... Any known compiler.
>
They all support all these calling conventions? I'm impressed.

>> Pascal is fine for small self-contained project. Pretty much
>>useless for system programming. How do you debug Pascal stuff
>>with ICAT?
>Is any problems?
>
What kind of debug info can you generate that ICAT understands?

>> Of course you can disagree all you want but that doesn't make
>>Pascal any better
>I don't want to be in holy wars. This is stupid. I use language which I like.
>
Like I said, it's not the language.

Where are the subsystem DLLs written in Pascal? Where are the
device drivers? Where are the WPS classes?


Michal

#488 From: "Bartosz Tomasik (Bart/2)" <bart2@...>
Date: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:48 am
Subject: Re: Re: osFree ihsiatko
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On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:21:20 -0700 (PDT), Michal Necasek wrote:

> Where are the subsystem DLLs written in Pascal? Where are the
>device drivers? Where are the WPS classes?

WPS requires SOM, and noone up to now cared enough to create SOM spport for
pascal...

#489 From: "Bartosz Tomasik (Bart/2)" <bart2@...>
Date: Fri Aug 30, 2002 9:52 am
Subject: OpenSibyl & Lazarus ihsiatko
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btw are you familiar with lazarus project? They also use free pascal...
(http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org)
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#490 From: "criguada@..." <criguada@...>
Date: Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:56 am
Subject: Re: Re: osFree criguada
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Hi all,

> >device drivers? Where are the WPS classes?
>
> WPS requires SOM, and noone up to now cared enough to create SOM spport for
> pascal...

just wanted to point out, since it seems you want to create a SOM
toolkit for pascal, that a lot of work has already been done, and it
would be wise to build on it instead of redoing it all.

Antony T. Curtis donated to the public domain all its source code a
couple years ago, since he wasn't able to continue development. Its
source archive should be on hobbes, called "giveaway.zip". If you don't
find it I can send it to you.

It contains (amon other things) an archive called som.zip, which is 5Mb
zipped! So already a lot of code.

Hope this helps.... I would really love to see a pascal toolkit grow
towards the levels of completeness of C toolkits.

Thankyou!
Bye

Cris