osfree.org

#11

From: Herwig Bauernfeind <herwig.bauernfeind@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 12:44 pm
Subject: License issue taxwarriorfr...
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Hi all,

surprise, surprise... was my first thought when I unpacked the preview. Keep up
the work guys (whoever did this...)!

Before installing this piece of software, I just found out that I am not allowed
to do it, because I would be violating terms and conditions item 1.

I run a small office and my computers are all OS/2 (and this is not easy these
days). I have SWC and I'll be going also for eCS. I have bought and registered
quite a lot of OS/2 software. My next thing to buy will be Flash 5 for OS/2
(thanks Innotek!).

I am not a (serious) programmer, but I tried to contribute my share to support
free OS/2 projects as Odin (OdinBug, Odin User's Manual), XWP ( half a dozen
of REXX gauge widgets, some other minor additions) and some little applications
I wrote (RexxAutoStart, Cisco 76x Setup Utility) and even ported a (little)
game (Qix for OS/2), everything for free and mostly done in my spare time. I
also intend to do things like that in the future.

But I am using OS/2 in a commercial environment.

If OSFree cannot be used in such an environment, it will not be an option for
me. I am perfectly aware that it is not me who is important for this project
(it would be ridiculous to think so), but it would exclude any other company
from using and eventually supporting OSFree with knowledge, manpower or
whatever.

OS/2's strength has always been the corporate userbase. IMHO excluding these
will make this project fail.

Just image Linux would have had a similar passage in their terms and conditions!

Maybe other people with a commerial background (I have seen Achim Hasem�ller is
a member of the list) could comment on this...

Best regards,
Herwig

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| Mag. Herwig Bauernfeind - Dfb. J.Bfd. - Accountant
| Martin-Luther-Str.12, A-9300 St.Veit/Glan, Austria
| Telefon: ++43 4212 2028 Telefax: ++43 4212 2028 76
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#12

From: "zuko18ru" <madded@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 12:51 pm
Subject: to osFree crew zuko18ru
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Hi!

I'm working on similar project, codename NetOS/2.
This is TCP/IP router/server/etc based on embedded OS/2 environment
with textmode only. It must to be 'our aswer to Cisco'
I planned to build MPTS/TCP installer+configurer, and configuration
via WWW interface. For now i'm working at NDIS & TCP diagnoster.

Also i'm writeln embedded PM* dlls versions with Prf* API, so
weasel, ftpd, telnetd .. etc apps working fine in textmode now.

Also i built a floppy version of OS/2 inet router.

I want to work togather with osFree team

#13

From: "poldi42" <poldi42@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 1:11 pm
Subject: Re: 100% stolen - no doubt! poldi42
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--- In osFree@y..., "achimha" <achimha@i...> wrote:
> I fear that .ru people are pretty safe from legal action. But those
> of you in .se etc. and supporting this theft should better be
> careful. It's not only IBM's intellectual property that has been
> stolen but also the IP that IBM has licensed from third parties. This
> makes it much more likely that IBM will take legal action.
>

I completely agree taking this as a base to build on will lead nowhere.


> Not looking at the legal aspects, it's also technical nonsense.
> OS/2's design is way outdated and its implementation is ugly. If
> there are really skilled developers with enthuiasm and time, then it
> should be done differently. A developer of ours has worked on a
> microkernel architecture with an OS/2 server (and Linux personality)
> for research purposes. You should rather go into this direction...
>

then again, now that the sources are out, it might help those that
want to take a more sensible approach as you suggest. first it might
be easier to come up with a replacement for something when you are
able to look how exactly this was implementet the first time - even
when your design was fundamently different - as I agree it should
indeed be. you above all people should see some value in the loss of
the need say, to test any given API against its function in NT SP6,
don't you? second, to see something "available" in source really
booting might inspire some flame in those capable but hopeless
sceptical as well to contribute to an effort of better grounding.

always remember that there are many motivated developers out there
nowadays (especially in .ru & sorts) that don't share your connections
and insights concerning IBM products/projects and take those mid-90s
myths like OS/2PPC and sorts as that - myths.

that said, while I can imagine this coup can help somebody, I don't
applaude the action in any manner for I don't think, no matter what
course IBM has taken concerning its products, this could be legaly OR
moraly justified.
regands,
Carsten

#14

From: "nick" <nickathome@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 1:28 pm
Subject: Re: to osFree crew nickk9ru
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:51:33 -0000, zuko18ru wrote:

>I'm working on similar project, codename NetOS/2.
>This is TCP/IP router/server/etc based on embedded OS/2 environment
>with textmode only. It must to be 'our aswer to Cisco'
>I planned to build MPTS/TCP installer+configurer, and configuration
>via WWW interface. For now i'm working at NDIS & TCP diagnoster.

Have you also built os2krnl and other stuff by yourself? Is it more legal
package than osFree ?

>
>Also i'm writeln embedded PM* dlls versions with Prf* API, so
>weasel, ftpd, telnetd .. etc apps working fine in textmode now.
>
>Also i built a floppy version of OS/2 inet router.
>
>I want to work togather with osFree team

#15

From: Herwig Bauernfeind <herwig.bauernfeind@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: License issue taxwarriorfr...
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> Maybe other people with a commerial background (I have seen Achim Hasem�ller
is
> a member of the list) could comment on this...

Okay, all my questions answered, unfortunately...

Obviously, I was too naive, this was too good to be true...

As long as legality is not clearly defined, OSFree is no issue for me.

Regards,
Herwig

--
+---------------------------------------------------
| Mag. Herwig Bauernfeind - Dfb. J.Bfd. - Accountant
| Martin-Luther-Str.12, A-9300 St.Veit/Glan, Austria
| Telefon: ++43 4212 2028 Telefax: ++43 4212 2028 76
| herwig.bauernfeind@... - Fidonet: 2:313/41.5

#16

From: "criguada@..." <criguada@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 2:11 pm
Subject: Re: 100% stolen - no doubt! criguada
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Hi Achim,

> Not looking at the legal aspects, it's also technical nonsense.
> OS/2's design is way outdated and its implementation is ugly. If

Let aside the understandable (and correct) legal point, I don't really
understand this issue. I'm surely not prepared enough to judge on this
point, but OS/2 has been (and still is) an excellent operating system.
It still handles multitasking and (especially) multithreading in a
manner that's superior to most other operating systems (at least those
that I've been using.. namely the M$ ones and Linux. But it compares
well even with BeOS).
The "cool" OS of the moment (Linux) has had naive round-robin
scheduling up to yesterday, and still has inferior multithreading, so
why this issues about OS/2 design?

> there are really skilled developers with enthuiasm and time, then it
> should be done differently. A developer of ours has worked on a
> microkernel architecture with an OS/2 server (and Linux personality)
> for research purposes. You should rather go into this direction...

This is very interesting. I don't fully understand here... what does it
mean "..with an OS/2 server (and Linux personality).." ?? Could you
elaborate please?

Another thought: there are many persons interested in coding on the
FreeOS group (while many others only seem able to talk), why didn't
your friend participate in such a project? Or, is this development
going to be a commercial product from Innotek?

Bye

Cris

#17

From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: 100% stolen - no doubt! mailjmase
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:46:56 -0000, achimha wrote:

>Well, anyone with a thorough technical understanding and knowledge
>about OS/2 knows everything about this when looking at it for a
>minute. I admire the maintainer for his abilities and time to get the
>9.023 sources compiling that have been leaked some years ago. It
>definitely wasn't easy.
>
>Too bad that this is 100% illegal and will lead to nowhere. Too bad
>that only these stone-aged sources have been leaked. Too bad that a
>lot is missing from the leaked sources.
>
I dont know if you are right or not. Is osFree "just a recompile"
or is it written from the ground up or a mixture ?
I dont have enough knowledge.

But from what you say I must assume you have these sources yourself
since you seem to know what and when they were "leaked".
Would admitting that not put you in as bad problem as anyone else ?

>I fear that .ru people are pretty safe from legal action. But those
>of you in .se etc. and supporting this theft should better be
>careful. It's not only IBM's intellectual property that has been
>stolen but also the IP that IBM has licensed from third parties. This
>makes it much more likely that IBM will take legal action.
>
If IBM can prove that these are stolen from them and tells me that would
procecute I will DEFINITLY think twice about supporting this. I might have
been fooled.

>Not looking at the legal aspects, it's also technical nonsense.
>OS/2's design is way outdated and its implementation is ugly. If
>there are really skilled developers with enthuiasm and time, then it
>should be done differently. A developer of ours has worked on a
>microkernel architecture with an OS/2 server (and Linux personality)
>for research purposes. You should rather go into this direction...
>
What I want is simply a way to keep using OS/2.

The question is not if osFree the right way, the question is where are
the alternatives ?

If your developer has a solution why have I never heard about it ???







Sincerely

JMA
Development and Consulting

John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================

#18

From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 2:48 pm
Subject: Re: License issue mailjmase
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:44:30 +0100, Herwig Bauernfeind wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Before installing this piece of software, I just found out that I am not
allowed
>to do it, because I would be violating terms and conditions item 1.
>
The reason for the conditions were though up by me, as a Technology Preview
I would not dare to promise anything.
The statement should be read as "this may blow up in your face - dont use it
if you care for your data".




Sincerely

JMA
Development and Consulting

John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================

#19

From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 2:57 pm
Subject: Is it real or is it ?? mailjmase
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Please everyone,

As I tried to say earlier, this is the ONLY project to opensource OS/2
that has shown ANYTHING.

I participated in the FreeOS mailinglist for a long time, nothing happened !

Now Achim tells us his collegies has a microkernel project with OS/2
support on it - This is the first I ever heard of it !

And the other guy who posted here.

I want a solution and I frankly dont care how it orginates, should I ??

The developers of osFree told me that they aim for a complete opensource
solution, what they released now is a tech preview and should be seens as
one.

I look for an opensource solution. If osFree is a simple ripoff of the IBM
source and there are no developers behind it then I can only hope that this makes
enough noice to make other people stop talkning and start working.

If the osFree developers can deliver an opensource solution I will support them
just as I support eComStation since they are do'ers and not talkers !




Sincerely

JMA
Development and Consulting

John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================

#20

From: "poldi42" <poldi42@...>
Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 3:06 pm
Subject: Re: 100% stolen - no doubt! poldi42
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--- In osFree@y..., "JMA" <mail@j...> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:46:56 -0000, achimha wrote:
>
> If IBM can prove that these are stolen from them and tells me that would
> procecute I will DEFINITLY think twice about supporting this. I
might have
> been fooled.
>

why have you been approached the first way? AFAIK anybody can upload
to hobbes, nomatter what continent... what is your role in this, other
than interest?

> >Not looking at the legal aspects, it's also technical nonsense.
> >OS/2's design is way outdated and its implementation is ugly. If
> >there are really skilled developers with enthuiasm and time, then it
> >should be done differently. A developer of ours has worked on a
> >microkernel architecture with an OS/2 server (and Linux personality)
> >for research purposes. You should rather go into this direction...
> >
> What I want is simply a way to keep using OS/2.
>

granted. you are not alone on this one.

> The question is not if osFree the right way, the question is where are
> the alternatives ?
>


I have to object. taking a active part in this can harm you as well as
other OS/2 projects reputation. I have no prove this is illegal, but
if it is (as I guess) and anybody cares enough about it (might not be
right now) you should double-check your actions. especially if you are
the author of suggested licenses.

regards,
Carsten