Part 7 - Feb 22 2002

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#191 From: Kris Steenhaut <kris.steenhaut@...>
Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 3:41 pm
Subject: Re: Re: My take on this.. Dont accuse Kris for this ! krissteenhaut
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JMA schreef:

> >
> You will have to acnowledge the compositour to perform it in public and
> pay royalties *if* you make money of it.
>

Hmm, yes and no. If the composer (author) is a member of "the organisation"
(differs per
country, in Belgium it's SABAM), you can perform as you like, but if it is a
public
event, you HAVE TO PAY royalties even if entrance is free. Mind, we are speaking
about
authors rights, not copyrights and in no way about patents. Copyrights are
mainly about
editors. A novelist gets authors royalties per sold copy, the editor usual holds
the
copyrights. Meaning his/her composition even isn't his/her property anymore .
But this
is far away from the real issue. Issue is, how about the sources: music notes,
letters
of the alphabet, words in a sentence, sentences in an paragraph, strings in a
*.asm or
whatever.


>
> There is one difference, if you sign a written agreement that you will
> not disassemble the product then you cannot do it but have you ??
>

Quite right. An elementary affair our worthy opponents always seems to forget:
an *agreement* is made out of the consent of at least two parties; one party
saying so
isn't good enough.


--
Groeten uit Gent,

Kris

[admin]

#192 From: "Eric Lavoie" <elavoie@...>
Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 3:46 pm
Subject: Re: OSFree and our future zeryx2000
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On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:44:07 -0800 (PST), Michal Necasek wrote:

> I do not. Did I ever say I did? I hope not! What do you
>think the OS/2 kernel is written in? Some OO language?
>It's all plain C and assembly, not a bit of C++.
>
> I think OOP is seriously overhyped. Obviously it's good
>business for some people, but let's not go into that.

MS tried to use OO at one stage for NT and they wisely dropped it.

[admin]

#193 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 3:49 pm
Subject: What we all(?) want (was: Re: My take on this..) mailjmase
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:43:01 -0000, poldi42 wrote:

>--- In osFree@y..., "ltning99" <ltning@m...> wrote:
>...
>>
>>
>and I am on this list because I don't think there is such thing as a
>common agreement that anybody should use this code. if there is such
>thing as a majority-oppinion, expressed by a "kind-of spokesman" JMA,
>it sounds to me like quite the contrary. but then again, I am no
>native english speaker.
>
Neither am I (a native english speaker).

I repeat this once again:

I'm NOT the developer of the TPE. I dont know for sure what sources
was used so I can only guess - but until I know for sure I'd better
shut up. However I'm trying to gather as much info on the subject
as possible !

__BLA_BLA_STOLEN_____
Once again, anyone can place stuff that would help me to understand
this better on my ftp site: ftp://jma.dnsalias.com/osfree/dropzone/
Its a noread directory and I dont log access to the ftp server.

If the TPE is a pure ripoff, a bit of a ripoff, a wrongly labled warp 4
dissassembly or a pure opensource os I dont yet know.

Some people are so pissed of by IBM that they would like the TPE to
be a pure illegal ripoff of IBM source. Some people would accept it
as a temporary solution, some say its bad but claim themself have
the code and some shy away from all possible "problems".

I will not stand aside nor endorse the TPE distro until I have all the facts.


__THE_REASON_FOR_ALL_THIS____
Starting a opensource OS/2 clone project has been my thought for
a very long time. Look at my earliest posts at FreeOS if you dont believe me.

An opensource OS/2 clone HAS to contain of as much as possible
"clean" code. It will be impossible to have 100% clean code and
thats a fact of life we must live with.
Even Linux is not 100% clean (far from it some say).

Therefore I started this project and got in contact with the group I
call the TPE developers (they have developed the osFree Technlology
Preview Edition). They had something to show and I might have been
too unsuspective ("blue-eyed" in my language). If thats a crime I
definitly feel guilty.

But whats the reason for me to spend hours on something that will
not give me any money and lots of abuse ?

I want an opensource OS/2 clone, I want us all to do this together !

Lets write the code, lets share it on our CVS, lets ensure the code
is clean (enough). Lets all do something we all want to have !





Sincerely

JMA
Development and Consulting

John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================

[admin]

#194 From: "os2bird" <bird@...>
Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:06 pm
Subject: Unable to help: LEGAL issues must be cleared out first!!! os2bird
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Hi!

I sincerely would have liked to help in a
opensource project for (re)implementing OS/2.
But the legal issues make that impossible for me.

I want a clear answer to these two questions:
1. Who did the original osFree release?
2. based on what material?

I'm currently clueless on the first question.

Regarding the second one I'm not. I've did a quick
comparation with the Warp 4 GA binaries.
I'm left with two options how this is done:
1. Disassemble the kernels using a tool like IDA
pro.
2. Got the sources from IBM legally or illegally.

The first one is very problemous, if not illegal in
most countries. For example I can't help you guys
when living in norway.

The next one is very good if someone can post the
agreement between IBM and the osFree guy(s) and
having IBM confirms this. That would be really
really really great if someone could do that!!!


But, until I get a clear answer I am completely
unable to help osFree. Sorry.
I'm not the only one in this position.


Kind Regards,
knut

[admin]

#195 From: "maratcolumn1" <marat_khalili@...>
Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:06 pm
Subject: Legal issues - Why don't you just ask IBM? maratcolumn1
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I mean it. Write IBM damn official fscking request: we've found some
sources here, don't you mind if we build and distribute 'em?
Regardless of legislation in different countries no one will use this
system unless IBM would admit it. Point.

[admin]

#196 From: "khaverblad" <kim@...>
Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:12 pm
Subject: osfree.org khaverblad
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Well, to keep a more clean and simple url you can
now find the site at http://www.osfree.org.

/Kim

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#197 From: "khaverblad" <kim@...>
Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:11 pm
Subject: osfree.org khaverblad
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Well, to keep a more clean and simple url you can
now find the site at http://www.osfree.org.

/Kim

[admin]

#198 From: Jason Filby <jasonfilby@...>
Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:32 pm
Subject: Re: Unable to help: LEGAL issues must be cleared out first!!! jasonfilby
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--- os2bird <bird@...> wrote:
>I sincerely would have liked to help in a opensource project for
>(re)implementing OS/2. But the legal issues make that impossible for
>me.

An effort to write an OS/2 subsystem for ReactOS (http://reactos.com)
is starting. Perhaps this will be of interest to you and anyone else
that wants to get started on out NT compatible-to-be kernel.

- Jason







__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

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#199 From: "criguada@..." <criguada@...>
Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: Unable to help: LEGAL issues must be cleared out first!!! criguada
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Hi Knut,

> I sincerely would have liked to help in a
> opensource project for (re)implementing OS/2.
> But the legal issues make that impossible for me.

Nobody stops you from beginning coding something that will be useful, no
matter what kernel we use. Join one of the groups (or start one
yourself), and sooner or later we will have our free, opensource, clean,
OS/2 clone.

Noone says we have to use the present osFree binaries. We can start
developing, and testing on our present (legally purchased) kernels,
until we have a suitable compatible kernel built from scratch.

Bye

Cris

[admin]

#200 From: "raprapand" <andersand666@...>
Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 5:14 pm
Subject: Re: My take on this.. Not legal to use IBM source raprapand
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--- In osFree@y..., "JMA" <mail@j...> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:10:16 -0000, drittervonfuenf wrote:
>
> >You don't have a clue what you are taking about.
> >If you take more than 3 chords outof a someone elses
> >pice of music, you need to have his permission and you have to pay
> >royalties as well.
> >
> You will have to acnowledge the compositour to perform it in public and
> pay royalties *if* you make money of it.

No, you have no pay even if you don't make money of it.

> Have you ever seen writings done by students in the university, they
> are full of text written by somone else. Look at articles written by
> journalists.
>
> As long as you say who it is you commented/copied and dont make
> any money out of it its perfectly legal

Still, it has nothing to do if you make money of it. You are entitled
to quote from interlectual property, but you are not intitled to copy
all of it. How much you can quote differs from case to case. I'm a
journalist, I know

> >And finally you don't need patents to protect source code. It is an
> >interlectual property like a book/song when it has reached a
certain level.
> >And thus protected by the same laws, and yes I talk about europe
here again.
> >So stop posting this BS here.
> >
> DO NOT ACCUSE Kris for posting BS !
>
> You may not agree with his stand on using "leaked source" but dont
> say he is wrong on legal matters unless you are able to prove it.

Well, he is right. You can se why in the Berner Convention:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/treaties/berne/overview.html

The problem with using IBMs source code is that a serious company
and/or coder will not be associated with the project. Besides IBM can
pull the plug on the project any time they wish - andthey will
actually have do this, when they find out about the project. If they
don't defend their interlectual property they might loose the right to it.


Regards Kim Ludvigsen