#51 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 1:58 am
Subject: Re: My take on this.. mailjmase
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:08:20 -0000, ltning99 wrote:
Eirik, It looks like you dont know to much about law
but you just agreed to having comitted a crime.
>A number of people have the leaked sources, including myself. I have
>never used those sources for anything productive, they are sitting on
>some CD here somewhere as a curiousity only, and that's how it will
>stay. It may sound like double-play to say what I've said above and
>still have these sources in my possession, but to anyone who wants to
>go down that road: There is a difference between that and releasing a
>product based on them, claiming it to be your own.
>
Assuming the development team has used the code you have, do
they state they own the code ?
And no, legally you are as guilty as they are. You have admitted you have
"stolen goods" in your posession and even admit you had them for a while
and not contacting either the rightful owners nor the authorities.
Giving away "stolen goods" does not generally give harder punishment than
having them.
>- This is definitely 100% illegal. It's not 'kind of illegal' or
>'maybe illegal' it's ILLEGAL in every possible sense of the word.
>'Leaked' source is, for all intents and purposes, the same as 'stolen'
>source, and use of 'leaked' or 'stolen' sources fall under the same
>category - it's illegal.
>
Ones again you know nothing about laws,
Unless a plaintif wins a case in court nothing is illegal.
You on the other hand has willingly admitted to having as you call it
"stolen" property. It would be a quite easy case if they were to sue you.
========================================================
I must thank you though. This tells us that there is really a leaked source.
I hope someone spreads this so that everyone could get hold of it and
get to know more about how OS/2 really work.
========================================================
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================
Part 2 - Feb 19 2002
Re: Part 2
#52 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 2:21 am
Subject: Re: So what's the plan?... mailjmase
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:52:07 -0500, Stepan Kazakov wrote:
>so, i dont belive in opensource os/2
>
Then unsubscribe !
This list is about building a OS/2 compatible opensource OS.
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
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==================================
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 2:21 am
Subject: Re: So what's the plan?... mailjmase
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:52:07 -0500, Stepan Kazakov wrote:
>so, i dont belive in opensource os/2
>
Then unsubscribe !
This list is about building a OS/2 compatible opensource OS.
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================
Re: Part 2
#53 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 2:42 am
Subject: Re: 100% stolen - no doubt! mailjmase
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:48:11 -0300 (EST), Perry Werneck wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> should be done differently. A developer of ours has worked on a
>> microkernel architecture with an OS/2 server (and Linux personality)
>
> What did you mean with "Linux personality"?
>
>> for research purposes. You should rather go into this direction...
>
> I agree about this. *If* the idea is to wrote a real free OS based on OS/2 the
best way is writing a
>brand new kernel supporting the same APIs of the original one and, maybee, some
new ones. (-:
>
Me to, and most people in the FreeOS list.
Now, what happened there ?
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 2:42 am
Subject: Re: 100% stolen - no doubt! mailjmase
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:48:11 -0300 (EST), Perry Werneck wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> should be done differently. A developer of ours has worked on a
>> microkernel architecture with an OS/2 server (and Linux personality)
>
> What did you mean with "Linux personality"?
>
>> for research purposes. You should rather go into this direction...
>
> I agree about this. *If* the idea is to wrote a real free OS based on OS/2 the
best way is writing a
>brand new kernel supporting the same APIs of the original one and, maybee, some
new ones. (-:
>
Me to, and most people in the FreeOS list.
Now, what happened there ?
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================
Re: Part 2
#54 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 2:41 am
Subject: Re: Leaked sources mailjmase
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:20:34 -0000, pinoozzyid wrote:
>It could be based on the Merlin sources but this are at least 90% the
>same that MCP2 (remember the M stands for Merlin). The main changes
>are those of the support of the new file system and it's interfaces,
>that were developed to support another feature that never came to be
>(so far at least).
>
While PM and WPS are probably mostly unchanged there are LOTS
of changes in the kernel and the driver subsystems.
The kernel, I'm told was rewritten between Warp 4 and Aurora not
only to add new thing but they moved lots of source to VisualAge
C++ from older tools (asm or IBMC ?).
TCPIP is probably almost entierly rewritten and many drivers are
new. Ofcource JFS/LVM is just a recompile (to pharaphrase people
in this list who "know" how osFree was build).
So saying that Warp 4 and Aurora is almost the same is unfair to
the work IBM put into it.
Btw, thanks for a sound view of all this. I wish more people would
see possibilities in an opensource OS/2 system and stop debating
where the thing released now came from.
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 2:41 am
Subject: Re: Leaked sources mailjmase
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:20:34 -0000, pinoozzyid wrote:
>It could be based on the Merlin sources but this are at least 90% the
>same that MCP2 (remember the M stands for Merlin). The main changes
>are those of the support of the new file system and it's interfaces,
>that were developed to support another feature that never came to be
>(so far at least).
>
While PM and WPS are probably mostly unchanged there are LOTS
of changes in the kernel and the driver subsystems.
The kernel, I'm told was rewritten between Warp 4 and Aurora not
only to add new thing but they moved lots of source to VisualAge
C++ from older tools (asm or IBMC ?).
TCPIP is probably almost entierly rewritten and many drivers are
new. Ofcource JFS/LVM is just a recompile (to pharaphrase people
in this list who "know" how osFree was build).
So saying that Warp 4 and Aurora is almost the same is unfair to
the work IBM put into it.
Btw, thanks for a sound view of all this. I wish more people would
see possibilities in an opensource OS/2 system and stop debating
where the thing released now came from.
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================
Re: Part 2
#55 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 3:22 am
Subject: Re: Re: 100% stolen - no doubt! mailjmase
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:39:02 +0100 (CET), Bartosz Tomasik (Bart/2) wrote:
>sorry but I get nervous.... something finally happens and most of you.... or
maybe you're
>already writing to this group from Win* / Linux box?
>One person already noticed that we're in similar situation to BeOS folks - the
difference
>is that they don't care whenever the code comes from, they get it, and work -
just to
>save what they love (and that's not true Palm don't care, several Be-related
sites that
>had served the code has been shut down after this leakege). More, there are
plenty of
>ex-Be'ers that joined OpenBe effort and helping... but we... "no this is
probably not quite
>legal.. so I won;t bother, i'll better go and instal new linux kernel..." damn!
Don't you
>care? I do, and I will do everything to help them (osFree team, if they want me
to) - there
>is a chance, and we should take it.
>
Bartosz !
I'll stop talking legalese since this will not help my goal but I must add this:
Just couse Palm is not selling BeOS they have as much right to their code as IBM
has
to their leaked code.
If having the OS/2 source (as lots of people are starting to admit) is illegal
its as illegal to
have the BeOS source. It has nothing, I repeat nothing to do if the code is sold
right now
or not.
If someone takes the source (OS/2's or BeOS) and sells it a plaintif may be able
to get
a higher damage setlement but that has nothing to do with how illegal it is to
have the
code.
Saying this is a dumb as, "I have a pirated copy of MS Office but since I dont
use it for real work I'm not as guilty as the other guys". BSA would not
agree...
>And if Achim has something to show (ukernel OS/2), please show us, I guess that
if this
>is a better way to follow, most will join you...
>
Achim more or less admitted he had access to the leaked OS/2 sourcecode. Now he
and
his company is disqualified from developing a OS/2 compatible OS.
Just the possibility that you had glimsed into copyrighted work will disqualify
any code
from you. *You* have to prove that the developers had NO access to "leaked"
code.
One question remains, is it really illegal for someone to get the BeOS source
code and
use or lean heavily on it to build a OpenBeOS ?
And if its illegal, will Palm care enough to sue anyone...
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 3:22 am
Subject: Re: Re: 100% stolen - no doubt! mailjmase
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:39:02 +0100 (CET), Bartosz Tomasik (Bart/2) wrote:
>sorry but I get nervous.... something finally happens and most of you.... or
maybe you're
>already writing to this group from Win* / Linux box?
>One person already noticed that we're in similar situation to BeOS folks - the
difference
>is that they don't care whenever the code comes from, they get it, and work -
just to
>save what they love (and that's not true Palm don't care, several Be-related
sites that
>had served the code has been shut down after this leakege). More, there are
plenty of
>ex-Be'ers that joined OpenBe effort and helping... but we... "no this is
probably not quite
>legal.. so I won;t bother, i'll better go and instal new linux kernel..." damn!
Don't you
>care? I do, and I will do everything to help them (osFree team, if they want me
to) - there
>is a chance, and we should take it.
>
Bartosz !
I'll stop talking legalese since this will not help my goal but I must add this:
Just couse Palm is not selling BeOS they have as much right to their code as IBM
has
to their leaked code.
If having the OS/2 source (as lots of people are starting to admit) is illegal
its as illegal to
have the BeOS source. It has nothing, I repeat nothing to do if the code is sold
right now
or not.
If someone takes the source (OS/2's or BeOS) and sells it a plaintif may be able
to get
a higher damage setlement but that has nothing to do with how illegal it is to
have the
code.
Saying this is a dumb as, "I have a pirated copy of MS Office but since I dont
use it for real work I'm not as guilty as the other guys". BSA would not
agree...
>And if Achim has something to show (ukernel OS/2), please show us, I guess that
if this
>is a better way to follow, most will join you...
>
Achim more or less admitted he had access to the leaked OS/2 sourcecode. Now he
and
his company is disqualified from developing a OS/2 compatible OS.
Just the possibility that you had glimsed into copyrighted work will disqualify
any code
from you. *You* have to prove that the developers had NO access to "leaked"
code.
One question remains, is it really illegal for someone to get the BeOS source
code and
use or lean heavily on it to build a OpenBeOS ?
And if its illegal, will Palm care enough to sue anyone...
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================
Re: Part 2
#56 From: "Perry Werneck" <perry.werneck@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 3:46 am
Subject: Re: 100% stolen - no doubt! perrywerneck
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:42:24 +0100, JMA wrote:
Hi,
>> I agree about this. *If* the idea is to wrote a real free OS based on OS/2
the best way is writing a
>>brand new kernel supporting the same APIs of the original one and, maybee,
some new ones. (-:
>Me to, and most people in the FreeOS list.
>Now, what happened there ?
Well. I never joined the FreeOS list and I'm new on this one but seens like
this list isn't that I
expected. Is there any project of building a new kernel? I Think I can help in
some parts but I don't have
skills to the worst part (memory management and task scheduling) .
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 3:46 am
Subject: Re: 100% stolen - no doubt! perrywerneck
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:42:24 +0100, JMA wrote:
Hi,
>> I agree about this. *If* the idea is to wrote a real free OS based on OS/2
the best way is writing a
>>brand new kernel supporting the same APIs of the original one and, maybee,
some new ones. (-:
>Me to, and most people in the FreeOS list.
>Now, what happened there ?
Well. I never joined the FreeOS list and I'm new on this one but seens like
this list isn't that I
expected. Is there any project of building a new kernel? I Think I can help in
some parts but I don't have
skills to the worst part (memory management and task scheduling) .
Re: Part 2
#57 From: "carlossuss" <carlossuss@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:03 am
Subject: Where can it be downloaded? carlossuss
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I see it is no longer available on Hobbes. Did it turn out to be
illegal? I use OS/2 (eCS now) at home, so I would be interested in an
open source software that runs OS/2 programs. I'm not a programmer,
but do write some useful routines in REXX to make my life a lot
easier. I have played with a few Linux distributions, but find it too
much like hard work to get anything done. I need to use Windows for
video editing because I haven't been able to find drivers/software to
enable me to do the work in OS/2, but I hate an operating system that
needs constant maintenance and rebooting. Maybe one day Odin will
allow me to totally wipe Windows from my system...
If it is true the IBM will discontinue OS/2 then I'm not left with
much of a choice. It would be a real shame to see it go. Would be
nice to know that someone out there is developing a system to allow
me to continue using my software and perhaps one day get as much
interest as Linux?
Just my tuppence worth.
Carl.
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:03 am
Subject: Where can it be downloaded? carlossuss
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I see it is no longer available on Hobbes. Did it turn out to be
illegal? I use OS/2 (eCS now) at home, so I would be interested in an
open source software that runs OS/2 programs. I'm not a programmer,
but do write some useful routines in REXX to make my life a lot
easier. I have played with a few Linux distributions, but find it too
much like hard work to get anything done. I need to use Windows for
video editing because I haven't been able to find drivers/software to
enable me to do the work in OS/2, but I hate an operating system that
needs constant maintenance and rebooting. Maybe one day Odin will
allow me to totally wipe Windows from my system...
If it is true the IBM will discontinue OS/2 then I'm not left with
much of a choice. It would be a real shame to see it go. Would be
nice to know that someone out there is developing a system to allow
me to continue using my software and perhaps one day get as much
interest as Linux?
Just my tuppence worth.
Carl.
Re: Part 2
#58 From: "ShadoW" <ShadoW.FmC@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:04 am
Subject: Re: My take on this.. shadow_fmc
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:58:12 +0100, JMA wrote:
>And no, legally you are as guilty as they are. You have admitted you have
>"stolen goods" in your posession and even admit you had them for a while
>and not contacting either the rightful owners nor the authorities.
I'm no expert, but it should make a difference, whether someone has copyrighted
software without license (on
a CD, not even installed), another spreads it, somebody else sells it, and a
fourth person steals your car.
For me that are for different crimes.
Sebastian
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:04 am
Subject: Re: My take on this.. shadow_fmc
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On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:58:12 +0100, JMA wrote:
>And no, legally you are as guilty as they are. You have admitted you have
>"stolen goods" in your posession and even admit you had them for a while
>and not contacting either the rightful owners nor the authorities.
I'm no expert, but it should make a difference, whether someone has copyrighted
software without license (on
a CD, not even installed), another spreads it, somebody else sells it, and a
fourth person steals your car.
For me that are for different crimes.
Sebastian
Re: Part 2
#59 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:10 am
Subject: Re: My take on this.. mailjmase
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:04:02 +0100 (CET), ShadoW wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:58:12 +0100, JMA wrote:
>
>>And no, legally you are as guilty as they are. You have admitted you have
>>"stolen goods" in your posession and even admit you had them for a while
>>and not contacting either the rightful owners nor the authorities.
>
>I'm no expert, but it should make a difference, whether someone has copyrighted
software without license (on
>a CD, not even installed), another spreads it, somebody else sells it, and a
fourth person steals your car.
>
>For me that are for different crimes.
>
It was just a way I used to try to make people understand what I meant.
Yes, you are right keeping or spreading copyrighted work is quit different
from selling copyrighted work or stealing a car.
What I meant to say is that having copyrighted work in your possesion
and spreading that work is as illegal. Its not the spreading that makes
it illegal. Selling it will definitly make a judge a bit more harsh.
Saying that "I only keep it on a disc" does not make it less illegal !
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:10 am
Subject: Re: My take on this.. mailjmase
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:04:02 +0100 (CET), ShadoW wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:58:12 +0100, JMA wrote:
>
>>And no, legally you are as guilty as they are. You have admitted you have
>>"stolen goods" in your posession and even admit you had them for a while
>>and not contacting either the rightful owners nor the authorities.
>
>I'm no expert, but it should make a difference, whether someone has copyrighted
software without license (on
>a CD, not even installed), another spreads it, somebody else sells it, and a
fourth person steals your car.
>
>For me that are for different crimes.
>
It was just a way I used to try to make people understand what I meant.
Yes, you are right keeping or spreading copyrighted work is quit different
from selling copyrighted work or stealing a car.
What I meant to say is that having copyrighted work in your possesion
and spreading that work is as illegal. Its not the spreading that makes
it illegal. Selling it will definitly make a judge a bit more harsh.
Saying that "I only keep it on a disc" does not make it less illegal !
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================
Re: Part 2
#60 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:15 am
Subject: Re: Where can it be downloaded? mailjmase
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:03:23 -0000, carlossuss wrote:
>I see it is no longer available on Hobbes. Did it turn out to be illegal?
>
It was removed since Hobbes dont dare keep questionable items.
With questionable items I mean stuff that might be illegal, not stuff
that is proven to be.
>
>If it is true the IBM will discontinue OS/2 then I'm not left with
>much of a choice. It would be a real shame to see it go. Would be
>nice to know that someone out there is developing a system to allow
>me to continue using my software and perhaps one day get as much
>interest as Linux?
>
Sorry, but yes, IBM is discontinuing OS/2. In a years time you will not
be able to get OS/2 from IBM unless you have some kind of VERY
high priced service contract. MCP2 is the last OS/2 version ever !
This will not make your existing OS/2 installation stop working but
the future chances of enhancements are very slim...
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================
Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:15 am
Subject: Re: Where can it be downloaded? mailjmase
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:03:23 -0000, carlossuss wrote:
>I see it is no longer available on Hobbes. Did it turn out to be illegal?
>
It was removed since Hobbes dont dare keep questionable items.
With questionable items I mean stuff that might be illegal, not stuff
that is proven to be.
>
>If it is true the IBM will discontinue OS/2 then I'm not left with
>much of a choice. It would be a real shame to see it go. Would be
>nice to know that someone out there is developing a system to allow
>me to continue using my software and perhaps one day get as much
>interest as Linux?
>
Sorry, but yes, IBM is discontinuing OS/2. In a years time you will not
be able to get OS/2 from IBM unless you have some kind of VERY
high priced service contract. MCP2 is the last OS/2 version ever !
This will not make your existing OS/2 installation stop working but
the future chances of enhancements are very slim...
Sincerely
JMA
Development and Consulting
John Martin , jma@...
==================================
Website: http://www.jma.se/
email: mail@...
Phone: 46-(0)70-6278410
==================================